Read Toshinari Masuda x Ryuichi Matsubara "Seven Emperor Judoki"

"Why did Masahiko Kimura not kill Rikidozan?"
Two years have passed since the serialization of this magazine. Toshinari Masuda has published an autobiographical novel set in the Seven Universities. From the monster biography to the story of the weak. How was the topic "Seven Emperor Judoki" born and what does it mean?
Professor Ryuichiro Matsubara, Director of the University of Tokyo Judo Department, heard. [Published in the June 2013 issue of "Gong Martial Arts"]

Matsubara By the way, this time, I would like to talk about the new book with Toshinari Masuda, who published "Seven Emperor Judoki" the other day.

Masuda Thank you.

Matsubara "Seven Emperor Judo" has become a hot topic in various fields, but I never thought that the day would come when I would see the word "Seven Emperor Judo" on the Asahi Shimbun. The Seven Universities Athletic Meet will be held on June 15th and 16th this year, and the book has a good reputation, so it's only now that we can take advantage of the excitement.

Masuda This book is also a magnificent solicitation from me to the new students of the seven schools of the former imperial university. If you are a freshman who is interested in reading, please go to the dojo. I will never regret it. People who have been doing standing skills in high school will be able to make more use of their sleeping skills by strengthening their sleeping skills, and it is the sleeping skills of Nanatei Judo that can be strengthened even from the white belt. Yuki Nakai is also super-dreadnought, starting with a white belt.

Matsubara As you know, the judo world is currently in a critical situation. However, by nature, judo is a wonderful culture and a Japanese tradition that should be preserved correctly for posterity. This time, I will talk about the "beautiful part" of judo through "Seven Emperor Judo".

The fundamental problem in the current judo world is that "strong people rule". If you win the All Japan Championships and the World Championships, and win the gold medal at the Olympics and achieve the Triple Crown, no one can argue with the strong man. Also, the reason for the problem this time was the voices of female judoka, but there are disparities and discrimination between men and women, and anyway, strong people are great, and it has become an organization without intellectual or social common sense. ing. All the rulers are strong or weak in competition.

On the other hand, in the Seven Emperor Judo, pull-in and exclusive defense are allowed in a team battle of 15 people, so it is a rule that both weak and strong can fight for the victory of the university. I think there is a basis for beauty here.

Masuda I think so too.

Matsubara: In contrast to the current judo world, where some strong men dominate power, what Masuda experienced at Hokkaido University is the story of the weak, and they have their own youth through the Seven Emperor Judo. It's a story of burning.

Masuda That's right. Strong is great, but weak is also great. I think that what I learned from the Kitadai Judo Club or the Seven Emperor Judo will eventually converge. There are people in various positions, but each has its own role. The readers would have felt that being alive was wonderful.

Matsubara I see. One point in talking about the relationship between the Seven Emperor Judo Kodokan Judo is that Jigoro Kano was negative about Kosen Judo, which is said to be the origin of the Seven Emperor Judo.

Masuda: It wasn't good for the judo of the ground fighting to get too excited among the students.

Mr. Kano Matsubara's theory was that if you are enthusiastic about team battles, the number of games you will run to defend will increase, and you should bet your risk openly and attack. It is a fact that Kosen judo was separated from the philosophy of Kano Shihan. However, when I was involved in the Seven Universities Athletic Meet as the director of the University of Tokyo Judo Department, there are some parts that are not so divisible. As Mr. Masuda says, Seven Emperor Judo has the charm of being able to fight even the weak. With this rule, depending on your efforts and ingenuity, you can get the feeling that the weak will compete with the strong players. Does Mr. Masuda have any objections to Mr. Kano's criticism?

Masuda: I don't have any objections, but if Professor Kano is still alive and looking at the current situation, I feel that Kosen Judo is also good, and that there is also Seven Emperor Judo. is. In light of the current situation in which All Japan Judo Federation, which ran to the Olympic supremacy, was socially beaten and terrible, in a sense, it may seem that the Seven Emperor Judo inherited his ideals. Also, with the advent of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, you may have noticed that Vale Tudo will eventually converge on the ground fighting. Personally, I feel that the Seven Emperor Judo has brought a different brilliance since the series of judo problems occurred.

Matsubara Well, the actual battle that Kano Shihan envisions was not a one-on-one Vale Tudo, but a one-to-many street quarrel, so it was criticized that Kosen judo was not practical because friends would come and trample if they continued their ground fighting for a long time. It is the content.

However, the judo population may have decreased compared to the time when Professor Kano was alive, but you wouldn't have expected that the number of professionals in competitive judo would grow to this extent. Judo players who are recommended to enter a prestigious university in the suburbs of Tokyo are like professionals. And such professional players play bullying lessons and games against weak players. It goes against the "Shinshin" that Kano Shihan calls, human formation.

Masuda: A player with a strong level halfway through does that (laughs).

Mr. Kano Matsubara was one step away from the competition, but you couldn't imagine a situation where you could see acts that were against morals when there was a difference in power under the Kodokan rules. How was it in Hokkaido? Did you get a glance from a strong university, such as a sevens team competition, which is an international rule?

Masuda There was. We'll be together at a joint randori or workshop at a university in Hokkaido, but it's blatantly treated as garbage with the attitude that it's not in the eyes from the beginning. It was a humiliation.

Matsubara: If it's not really in my eyes, I wish I could be kinder (laughs).

Masuda: That's right (laughs).

Toshinari Masuda (front) is aiming to consolidate his strength against heavyweight opponents who have a weight difference of 50 kg or more in international rule games. In order to fight according to international rules and Kodokan rules, the Seven Emperor Warriors study various techniques.

Matsubara: It's an old story, but every time the University of Tokyo went to a certain university to practice, it was whispered to "kill" in his ear. However, it seems that there was an Australian who said, "You are the one to kill" at the University of Tokyo. Did Masuda and his friends feel like that?

Masuda: I don't have it anymore, but there was a strong school called Dohto University, and the players there at that time were really terrible. The referee will protect you during the match, and you can also take the plunge as you see the crowd, but it was a mess when you ransacked in the joint practice. That's why when I hit Michitan in the tournament, I went to the side and got into a fight.

Matsubara Ude hishigi is a technique that declares that you are the one to kill. Mr. Masuda sells a lot of fights in books (laughs).

Masuda No, I'm doing it within the bounds of common sense (laughs). If you combine them properly, you will be thrown in one shot. Under such circumstances, we desperately researched ourselves. It is also a wonderful soil of Seven Emperor Judo that you can study techniques while thinking about how to fight against a large number of strong players who have different achievements with a weight difference of 50 and 60 kg. By appearing in both the Seven Emperor Rule and the International Rule, various ideas are born and new techniques are born. When I think about it now, I think it was like a heterogeneous martial arts battle between Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo. SRT (Return Endo) was born from Kyoto University and is now used on the stage of the Olympics.

Matsubara: Well, the other person is conscious of "Why do people who have an escape route to leave the national university and enter a major company enter our sanctuary even though we are doing judo as a professional?" I wonder if there is. When I practiced with a professional martial artist, I was forced to feel sick several times. However, professionals cannot win the game without such feelings, so it can't be helped. Masuda-san and others would have felt that they were physically fit.

Masuda Of course. Especially in my second year, I thought I could go to Nippon Budokan at the All Japan Student Judo Championship, which is a sevens tournament that decides the best university group in Japan. Well, in the end, I couldn't go all over the country because I lost to the short road in the Hokkaido qualifying, but I had a strong feeling that I didn't want to lose to the powerful private university, which is messed up by the usual randori. The death battle of that championship tournament, which challenges a strong private university by making full use of ground fighting, is one of the highlights of "Seven Emperor Judoki". About 10 years ago, my seniors were wondering why they were so weak, even though they had been competing with a strong private university even after advancing to the Budokan.

Unlike private universities recommended by Matsubara, the seven national and public universities are basically required to study hard for entrance exams. From my point of view, many of the students who have entered the university are individualistic, probably because they are in the special environment of studying for entrance exams. Seven Emperor Judo has the effect of decontaminating the "evil" that has accumulated while studying for entrance exams. In the judo club, I learned to serve as a group, and even if it was a little absurd, I could afford to enjoy the absurd thing itself if I listened to the instructions of my seniors. I think that you can learn from the Seven Emperor Judo that the sociality that you lost in studying for the entrance exam and that it will be useful in the distant future even if it looks irrational in the near future. In particular, I think the University of Tokyo students are strong people in their studies, but the strong people are not intelligent. I can't read the air at all, or I lack sociality. It is the same as the strong man of Kodokan Judo. Therefore, I would like you to finish the Misogi by doing the Seven Emperor Judo for four years and go out to the society. How did Mr. Masuda think about the relationship between individuals and groups in the judo club?

Masuda I think the other theme of this novel is "group" and "individual". There are various organizations such as schools and companies, but there are good points of belonging to an organization and good points of individuality, so people try to be individual. Junko Sakai wrote in the book review section of the Tokyo Shimbun about the goodness of belonging to a group, but I think the judo members of the seven universities feel that kind of thing during the randori.

Matsubara Randori?

Masuda Writer CW Nicole was doing Shotokan Karate and wrote the karate kata as "Moving Zen". I thought it was true. When I was messing around with my ground fighting, I had a feeling that my head, that is, my brain, was very activated. For a few hours of randori, I think it's very philosophical, as it seems to keep my head white. But now that I'm retired, that philosophical time has diminished. I was thinking deeply about the way groups and individuals should be, as if I was doing Zen at that time.

Matsubara: That means that the pursuit of intellectual things is a strong part of the Seven Emperor Judo. People with strong standing skills can do various skills just by looking at them before using their heads. It's a natural talent, so you don't have to translate it into words one by one. On the other hand, there is an aspect of ground fighting that can be understood by translating the technique into words. In order to convey it to juniors, it is necessary to work to make it universal by words. Seven Emperor Judo can be replaced with words rather than Kodokan Judo, which is mainly based on standing skills.

Masuda I feel that. As I said earlier, on the other hand, the turmoil of the judo world these days has made the Seven Emperor Judo shine, and I feel that it has been picked up by the media in the form of a judo utopia that has evolved in a different direction. ..

Matsubara However, the atmosphere of the world written in "Seven Emperor Judoki" is different from that of the current Seven Great Wars. Nobody would join the judo club if I was doing a lesson like bullying (laughs). At the University of Tokyo now, it's normal to have a three-part training, and since we also practice every week at a strong school, the rigor is the same as that of Hokkaido University in this book. However, I don't think it will continue if you are given a hard training without being intellectually convinced.

Masuda: You have to make a proper announcement there. It's about 30 years ago, so don't get me wrong. The practice like Shigoki and the rite of passage for new students, "Kannoyousei," have disappeared. Regarding liquor, the OB chairman wrote in this year's OB journal "Hokkaido University Judo", but even if he wants to drink, he makes sure that students under the age of 20 never drink alcohol. increase.

Matsubara That sentence was circulated throughout the seven universities this year.

Masuda After all, sake loses the muscles you put on it, and there is nothing you can get from unreasonable sake. Also, since practice is also for the purpose, I don't think I've been able to narrow it down during training these days. The game is left to the discretion of the person himself, and no one has stated that it is absolutely useless if he comes. I think the good thing about Seven Universities is that there is no such compulsion. I decide everything myself. You treat athletes as adults, seven universities.

Matsubara However, the one who narrows down will continue to narrow down unless the other party comes, so it may fall. At the University of Tokyo, it is taught that "If you have enough time to come to the game, try to escape." It means, "I'm not afraid to fall in a match." Well, when it comes to joints, you should concentrate before you get to the extreme, and when you get to the extreme, you have no choice but to come quickly.

Masuda As Mr. Matsubara says, it must be the Misogi of the former imperial university students. Perhaps the students who were in the top class of school at junior high school and high school are hurting others without knowing their grades and intellect. However, when I entered the Seven Universities and entered the judo club, I realized that I was terribly weak. It is shown with a realistic body, and then the person reconsiders. Actually, there are a lot of people with ridiculous talents in various genres, and I'm not that much of a person. Rethinking that is the Misogi, isn't it education?

Matsubara: There are quite a few scholars who rationally seek out the immediate future, but only those people are taking irrational actions in the long run. Mr. Masuda seems to be doing irrational things in the book in the short term, but in the long run, there are wonderful memories of spending time with his friends.

Masuda That's right. There were many things I didn't realize or gained without doing irrational things.

Matsubara Also, what was interesting in the story was the scene where Mr. Masuda was eating a professor in an English class.

Masuda: Well, I was about 20 years old ... Sumimasen (bitter smile).

Matsubara No, that's a good opinion. I always think that it is not good to force classes such as extension of studying for entrance exams after entering university. Forcing science students to teach literary texts in English is only a teacher's hobby. It's bullying. I just hate learning. Mr. Masuda was just saying that.

Masuda: The liberal arts department also does biology, chemistry, and physics. That's almost an extension of studying for entrance exams, isn't it? The basics of English are already in place ...

Matsubara: It doesn't matter if the subject of English is compulsory, but depending on the person, there are those who want to learn English for reading treatises, those who want to learn English for writing, those who want to improve their English conversation skills and score points in TOEFL. There is. It's strange to force everyone into one of the college's specialties of literature, even though you can choose what kind of English you want to learn. In fact, even at the University of Tokyo, English is being reformed in that direction. Mr. Masuda pointed out that properly. Well, it was a development from the case where I was asleep (laughs).

Masuda It's embarrassing ... (laughs).

Matsubara This is one of the major reasons why students get sick in May. Even though I entered university, I was disappointed when I was forced to extend my study for entrance exams. However, if you can have a purpose of study that can only be experienced at Nanatei Judo or university, you may be able to avoid May disease.

Masuda Probably the highest English proficiency in four years is at the time of admission. Because I use English texts that I'm not interested in, my motivation drops, and from there my abilities gradually decline. It's more fun to read highly specialized English from the beginning. You can also learn technical terms. For example, in the case of engineering, the English textbook on the history of architecture, and in the case of biology, the English textbook on the ecology of dolphins.

Matsubara: If you're excited about your expectations and enter university, and you're disappointed that you'll end up studying for entrance exams, you'll just lose your motivation. That English story is good.

Masuda Thank you. When I think about my college days again, there are people who are active in the seven universities, and there are also Ichinami, Ninami, and Sannami, so the level of judo ranges from those who appeared in the inter-school athletic meet to the white belt. It's a mixture of miscellaneous people. Richness and new connections are born there.

Matsubara: It's about diversity. Schools with strong judo are only strong people.

Most of Masuda Powerhouse Universities are recommended and come in active duty. Must be selected as 7 regulars from over 100 members. It's kicking down. Some people will be happy if someone gets injured. But in the Seven Universities, 15 people are selected from about 20 members. Reaching out to each other, the strong and the weak take each other's positions and help each other. From a social point of view, it can be said that he is doing better judo than a strong university.

Matsubara: He's a person with bad motor skills.

Masuda: There are really new students at the former imperial university who can do push-ups only about 5 times. However, it is wonderful to grow over the next four years. By the time they reach the 4th grade, such freshmen will become bodybuilder-like bodies and will do push-ups a thousand times. I like to see the faces of 4th graders when I go to support the Seven Emperors. Everyone has a dignified profile. By the way, recently, for the first time in society, I saw people with the same facial expressions as the 4th graders. They were young people heading to the earthquake-stricken area of Tohoku by truck from the Self-Defense Forces garrison. About 20 years old. Their profile was the same as the 7th grade 4th grade. A sense of mission for the sake of people was oozing out, and tears came out of its dignity.

Matsubara After the Great East Japan Earthquake, members of the Self-Defense Forces, who had been said to be evil for a long time after the war, carried out their mission legitimately for the first time and were evaluated by the people. They were divinely dignified at the forefront.

However, in the case of the Seven Universities, we did not want to be evaluated from the outside for a long time, and even if it was not taken up by the media, we were convinced of its value among ourselves. This time, Mr. Masuda plays a role in spreading this value to the world. Mr. Masuda, what do you think about the stance that you don't have to be known to the world?

Masuda That was the case when I was a student. But now that the number of members is decreasing and we are in danger of survival, I hope that it will be a chance to get to know high school students and ronin, and to know their names. Since it was 30 years ago, it is written that it is not allowed from the modern sense, but first of all, it is important to let people know its existence. With this kind of judo, you can become stronger even from a white belt.

Matsubara There is a member named Hirosawa who graduated from the University of Tokyo this year, but he came in with a white belt, but at the time of the graduation game the other day, Mr. Katsuhiko Kashiwazaki was good at "pendulum tomoe nage". I was doing the driving. Kashiwazaki-sensei said with a straight face, "Hirozawa is the second and third best pendulum tomoe nage in Japan." It's a special technique where the legs cross once, so if you have the common sense of judo, your intuition will get in the way and it's difficult to do. It was said that Hirosawa skillfully crossed his legs because he entered from the white belt. The white belt has some aspects that are not bound by the common sense of judo, and it may become a personality.

Masuda It's an interesting story.

Matsubara On the contrary, students who belonged to the strict judo club in high school tend not to join the judo club of the university. At the University of Tokyo, most of the players who were half-powered up to high school go to the American football club.

Masuda It seems that if you are strict in high school, you tend not to continue to college.

Matsubara: I can't stand that tightness anymore. Bullying, corporal punishment, and cursed instruction can wear out a simple attachment and longing for judo. In the case of Mr. Masuda, as long as he reads the story, he feels that he has become stronger after the second year, and the feeling of sadness diminishes. Then you don't want to continue judo even after entering university.

Masuda However, as the first half is written in the book, I was the only one who consciously participated in all the randori in the first grade. So only I was hard. At the seven universities, considering the decline in physical strength due to studying for entrance exams, it is supposed that you should practice adjusting yourself for a while after enrollment, so I want new students to feel at ease. Also, whether or not to play judo at university depends largely on the guidance of junior high school and high school before enrollment. I think that the teaching method of director Makoto Iwai of Hokkaido University, which appears unintentionally in the work, is also a question. It is a challenge not only in the judo world but also in the Japanese sports world in the future that the leader does not let him do it unilaterally, but thinks with his own mind and takes responsibility for himself. I think.

Opening ceremony of the Seven Emperors War in 1989. In front of the front row is Toshinari Masuda, a fourth-year student at Hokkaido University and deputy captain. Captain Hiromasa Takizawa, who can be said to be the quasi-leader of "Seven Emperor Judoki", stands on the other side.

Matsubara If you want students to win the game in the near future, it will be effective if you don't think about things. With the feeling that "you should only do this technique", let me do it without making you think about why. It's certainly stronger, but it doesn't make you think about it yourself. On the other hand, Director Iwai's method emphasizes independence that will become stronger over four years. It is such a teaching method that you will know the importance of thinking for yourself later when you take a look at it for the rest of your life.

Masuda I think that the former imperial university was and is close to this in every school. I am educating through judo, thinking about how to grow in my work after I went out into society. It is a recognition that life after retiring and taking off the dogi is also the Seven Emperor Judo. That's why everyone has been active in various fields of work since they went out into society.

Matsubara: Personally speaking, I asked students to announce what they thought about in the seven years since they became the director, and in the four years, as a "judo club graduation thesis," and recorded it in a video. .. Everyone has been using their heads for four years through trial and error, so it's interesting to see their respective perspectives. Recently, I have also added the desire to pass on the techniques I discovered to my juniors. The method will differ depending on the school, but each school must have its own way of communicating the teachings of seniors.

Masuda: If you compete in that form of competition, you will inevitably create something like that.

Matsubara By the way, is Mr. Masuda's deadly armpit consolidation transmitted to his juniors?

Masuda I think it's transmitted (laughs).

Matsubara April is the season when new students who take over the skills of such seniors enter the judo club, but this year, So Taue, who won the second place in the 2010 Inter-High Men's 100kg Super Class, joined the University of Tokyo. He has motor nerves that can even turn backwards and techniques that do not involve him. Still, with the desire to study, I kept a distance from the strong judo school and continued to practice judo alone. When I was in Toyama High School, I fought at the Inter-High School Championships as the only member. Then, I was accepted by the University of Tokyo because of my lack of academic interest, and I decided to start judo in earnest.

Masuda: When considering the meaning of the group and the individual, I think his presence will attract a great deal of attention throughout the Japanese sports world. Moreover, he is the most difficult student at the University of Tokyo.

Matsubara Judo is openly told to stop studying, and he has fought to support his family in an atmosphere where the leader is forced to do it with the word of God. is. I also went to see the Inter-High, but it has a strange atmosphere. Normally, the cheers of colleagues in the same high school compete for which player is bigger, but as a scene, only the cheers of the mother can be heard at the venue. He must not be in the school where the instruction is given to swallow the words of the instructor. I have been blessed with wonderful leaders at the training destination, but it is a method that can not be a groupist club activity to receive guidance as an individual. Nowadays, anti-intellectualism in the judo world is becoming a social problem, but the fact that Mr. Taue, who can adore learning and act individually, passed the University of Tokyo is throwing a stone in the groupism of the judo world. ..

Masuda I think that's wonderful, and I'm really looking forward to how it evolves in the Seven Emperor Judo.

Matsubara But for us, he's basically not used to living in a group, so we have to be careful. The University of Tokyo is all bright now, so I'm relieved. If they can be demonstrated, it will surely become a treasure of the Seven Universities.

Masuda: Far from being a seven university, it will be a treasure in the Japanese sports world. There may be a scene where an active student of the University of Tokyo II fights against a strong player who lives like a professional and wins. I'm excited. If you learn the turtle-removing technique of Seven Emperor Judo with that physical, you will not be able to touch it.

Matsubara: Unlike when I was in high school, I couldn't win the match I played during the Ronin for the past two years because my opponent didn't stand up from the front and deal with the technique. If this makes him learn to take turtles and the opponent has no choice but to compete in standing skills, his goodness should come out even more. Speaking of which, he was driven into the game one month before the center entrance exam, and he is throwing a regular of ○ size.

Masuda Eh !?

Matsubara I was surprised to see it. When I said to him, "I'm glad today," he said, "I'm going to Sundai from now on."

Masuda: If you're studying for an exam, that's only 30% or 40% of the power at the peak.

Matsubara: "I'm finally weak," he said.

Masuda First, the seven emperor judo world is surprised, the Japanese judo world is surprised, and then the world is surprised. It seems to be persistent, but I think it's a talent that upsets all the ways and ways of thinking in the Japanese sports world.

Matsubara: It's important to be strong, but it's important to grow up as a humble good young man. I would like to leave the guidance to the instructor to become stronger, and we would like to give advice on the study and human part.

Speaking of talent, Mr. Seiji Sawada, who was one year older than Mr. Masuda who entered in Sannami in synchronization with Mr. Masuda who appears in "Seven Emperor Judoki", is impressive, but what will happen after that?

Masuda The person who became his model was the man I admired. A strong player from high school, he is strong and masculine ... But in the end, I quit not only the judo club but also the university and went to another world.

Matsubara: Do you smell that in the setting that you work at a bar during the work?

Masuda That's right.

Matsubara Sawada-kun, do you think there was a reason or feeling that you couldn't continue the Seven Emperor Judo at that time?

Masuda I think there was. One editor said, "Mr. Masuda can't control only Mr. Sawada in this story, but that's why this work looks lively." Isn't the writer a god in a sense? But only Sawada couldn't control it. I think I wasn't satisfied with Sawada at that time. I became a young man in the first year of college, and I think he was a young man who already had various things inside when he entered the university.

Matsubara I see. Although the University of Tokyo is not the same type, there was a nihilistic member regarding the sense of fellowship. A student who has been ranked high in the national junior high school competition, he has somehow forgotten to become stronger at university, and he is more interested in studying at university and joining a cultural circle. It seems that there was. However, he managed to get along with the judo club for four years. However, it was hard to hit my friends. With a tone similar to Mr. Sawada, he curses his friends from behind during the match. It may be because I saw the amazing world of the top of all and sacrificed it. I wonder if such types of the seven majors will occasionally appear.

Masuda After I graduated, the captain of a strong private high school who became the second place in the group at Inter-High came in with 2 waves, and for girls, the Empress's Cup (individual competition to decide the best Japanese women's judo in Japan with indiscriminate weight. All Japan for boys There was a time when a heavyweight talent who would participate in the first year of college (corresponding to the championship) came in. Sometimes such monsters come in, but it seems that there are quite a few patterns that don't work.

Matsubara: I see, there are some students who can't get into the sense of fellowship at the Seven Universities. But thanks to the inspiration from the student, the University of Tokyo was one step closer to winning the championship.

On a different note, I would like to ask you about the question of whether or not Seven Emperor Judo is completely connected to Kosen Judo. Formally, when the Seven Emperor Judo started in 1952, it didn't seem like it would succeed the national technical college judo tournament that had not been held since 1945. It gradually approached the Kosen judo rules.

This is because, in my understanding, the former Seven Universities are most purely applicable to the "rules that allow the weak to fight equally even if there are strong ones" in Kosen judo. "Emphasis on the weak" is said to be a proprietary patent for Kosen Judo, but the number of participating schools gradually increased from the initial center of the Imperial University, and the Kosen Judo in the Showa period, which became so huge that even Masahiko Kimura participated in the war, was weak. Even if it was an advantageous rule, I think that the seven college students were in a desperate mood because Mr. Kimura was the other party.

Masuda For example, if the current Seven Emperor Wars were opened and Kokushikan and Tenri's first-class students began practicing according to the rules, the seven university students would have a hard time.

Matsubara Maybe I can't stand the rigorous practice described in "Seven Emperor Judoki".

Masuda I can't keep my motivation.

Matsubara Yes, there are walls that cannot be overcome by any means. I think the biggest difference between the current Seven Emperors and Kosen Judo is that they all feel equal and can do their best because of the thinness of the layer and the old system of the Seven Universities, which are also striving for academics.

Masuda It's important to stay motivated to win the championship. During my active career, I once criticized the Faculty of Medicine's East Medical School (East Japan Medical Science Student Comprehensive Athletic Meet). Only the medical school got together. Then, a professor said, "You guys are the same." I wonder if they are together because they are gathered only at the seven universities. I wasn't sure at that time, but now that I think about it. In order to keep students motivated, I think that it is a very excellent form considering the deadline of 4 years.

Matsubara: This is the last question, but at the University of Tokyo, there was a debate about "Is it okay to use judo with only turtles?", And I was withdrawn from the Seven Universities for a while. I wasn't involved in the judo club at that time, but in the seven years since I became the director, I feel that I have finally caught up with the level of the seven emperors' ground fighting skills. Of course, I came here because of the guidance of my teacher, Kashiwazaki-sensei, and the students themselves who worked hard, but to be honest, I lost so much when I was withdrawing. In the year when all the experienced workers were in the upper ranks, I didn't know how to grow a white belt. How did Mr. Masuda see that the University of Tokyo did not participate in the Seven Universities at that time?

Masuda I was disappointed when I became six universities, even though it was a tournament only with seven universities. Everyone was a rival, and I would have missed anything.

Matsubara The University of Tokyo's tackle turtle, which appears in the book, triggered the withdrawal from the University of Tokyo. The tackle turtle is to tackle and suddenly become a turtle and grab the hem of the opponent's pants, and if this is not judo, the University of Tokyo has withdrawn. What do you think about this tackle turtle, Mr. Masuda?

Masuda: It appears as an episode in "Seven Emperor Judoki" that I hear from my seniors, but the year before I entered the university, a player from Kyoto University told Kazuhiko Tanaka of Kyushu University, who was said to be the number one in the Seven Emperors at that time. It seems that he set up a tackle turtle. This Tanaka player is a super-dreadnought who will join a strong businessman in judo after graduation. During the match, both the Kyoto University camp and the Kyushu University camp were swearing and it was a tough match. As I happened to hear, it seems that the two have recently reunited for the first time in 30 years, but by meeting and talking, it seems that the two have disappeared. To put it the other way around, tackle turtles had a cause and effect that would drag them for 30 years. After all, my time was confused the previous year, so I think it was banned at the refereeing meeting.

Matsubara: The rule was revised so that you must hold the top of the obi with two hands to pull it in. The tackle turtle loses the foul with one shot. Still, tackles are not prohibited, so the phenomenon of crushing tackles and becoming turtles occurs. Judgment is confusing depending on how you think about this. If the amendment had been made earlier, it would have been possible to avoid the dragging of the previous 30 years, but the gray zone will inevitably remain.

Masuda: There weren't many turtles during the technical college days, but unlike the current 6-minute rule, I think it was 10 minutes for 13 people, 20 minutes for the deputy general, and 30 minutes for the general. is. If you do a turtle for 30 minutes, it will definitely be taken. So lately, I'm talking about returning to my classmates. Slide the Seven Emperors' Battle from June to August during the summer vacation, and try to fight hard until the end with the rule of 10 minutes, 20 minutes, and 30 minutes over 3 days. I feel that some students end up with incomplete combustion in 6 minutes.

Matsubara I see. But it will be difficult to do it over 3 days. University teachers are no longer tolerant of athletic meet. I write a letter asking, "Please take a break from class from the morning only on the day of the match. I will write a report later", but the teachers say "No". Universities are getting harder now. The game will be in June, and at that time there are also recent low school exams.

Masuda: I see, I'm a little lonely.

Matsubara By the way, in "Seven Emperor Judoki", there was a description that Kyoto University, which weighs only about 70 kg, was in the top 16 in the All Japan Championship, but my impression is that it is special like Yuki Nakai. Regardless of the existence, usually, in order to advance to the national tournament, it should be a player who was originally able to perform standing skills and learned more ground fighting skills. If the knitting is not good, it is difficult for the lightweight class to outline the heavyweight class. However, half of the players at Kyoto University are said to have started from the white belt. I can't imagine that such players would win under the international rules that prohibit pulling in.

As I wrote in the Masuda book, Kyoto University held training camps 15 times a year at that time. I think I was very well trained.

Matsubara: I know the rules of the Seven Emperors, but how did you win the international rules? I can't imagine it because it's impossible to decide in the world of ground fighting for only 10 to 15 seconds.

Masuda I don't know because I didn't actually watch the match either. However, in the sports aspect of the newspaper at that time, it was treated at the top, and it seems that it was a speedy sleeping technique that was baptized to that extent. I think I was doing research on how to make good use of ground fighting, such as tomoe nage, while practicing at a nearby strong university.

Matsubara: From what I've heard, Professor Shozo Fujii of Kyoto Sangyo University did a thorough kumite.

Masuda Kyoto University made various efforts to reach a level where it could beat a strong university without installing a wall. At that time, the University of Tokyo was oriented toward standing skills, so I think I wanted to show that I could go to a ground fight.

Matsubara If this happens, I have no choice but to ask the seven regulars at that time on Gon's magazine and have them do a special feature that reproduces what kind of game they played. I think it will be a story full of romance.

Masuda That's right. Since the judo competition population is large, the overall level of university judo will be higher than it is now, and it is out of the category to fight with an average weight of 70 kg over a strong school. I know if it's a draw, but I'm taking it.

Matsubara It's difficult to get turtles in less than 15 seconds, so aim for a momentary gap ...

Masuda Moreover, the other party is over 100 kg. I would like this to be featured.

Through Matsubarashi's "Seven Emperor Judoki", I was able to talk about what will lead to the next. Thank you for a long time today.

Masuda Thank you very much.

[Published in the June 2013 issue of "Gong Martial Arts"]

Ryuichiro Matsubara Born in Kobe City, Hyogo Prefecture in 1956. Graduated from the Department of Urban Engineering, Faculty of Engineering, University of Tokyo. Completed the doctoral course at the Graduate School of Economics. Currently a professor at the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. Majors are socioeconomics and correlated social sciences. Born in the judo club of Nada Junior and Senior High School, which was founded by Jigoro Kano. He entered Daido Juku at the age of 33 and is currently the 4th Dan of the International Karatedo Federation Daido Juku. Cram school businessman class teacher. He has written many books such as "Contemporary Controversy as Martial Arts", "Thinking Martial Arts", "Living in Martial Arts", "Keynes and Hayek-Questions on Money and Markets".